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I think what you are missing is that everyone has a ticket to ride, it's just that each person has their own appointment with destiny and not everyone wants to be on that train. The richman with no name, had all the opportunities that the poor beggar at his gate did, but the one ended up in hades and the other one in Abraham's bosom. In the end God knows in advance who is going to come along and who is not, so his cut off time would take into consideration the final choices of all human beings. Does this make sense ?

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I'd look at it the exact same way I look at life.  They are responsible for their decisions, I am not.  We don't have to agree because I don't pay for their mistakes, they don't pay for mine.

I would no more go to hell for someone I love, than say, go to prison.

If burning in hell is a sign of love and being a christian...wow, Satan must be the best.

Hi Info...

Just because the rapture takes place it doesn't mean total destruction for those left behind. As I go further into Revelation it will be seen that MANY will still come to Christ. God is a God of second, third and more chances. He's very patient but there will be a time when even God's patience runs out.

In 7:9 it shows us that a great multitude will still be saved even during the tribulation. The only difference is it's going to be pretty bad for a while but even then some will still make it intact and be standing when he comes back.

I think Tova said it well here. It's a decision we make and cannot make for another. The best thing a Christian can do is redeem the time now and not take this lightly. So we tell that neighbor and his wife or relative that you spoke of NOW. By then it will be too late and besides, we won't have a chance nor will we want to "stay behind." It's going to happen in the twinkling of an eye. Our desire is to go when he says....come!

Just because the rapture takes place it doesn't mean total destruction for those left behind. As I go further into Revelation it will be seen that MANY will still come to Christ. God is a God of second, third and more chances. He's very patient but there will be a time when even God's patience runs out.

Good.... then would it not make more sense for those who are "saved" and getting on the train to get off and help those not on to come to salvation?

We don't have to agree because I don't pay for their mistakes, they don't pay for mine.

But I am not talking about "going to prison". If you are allowed on the trail, you will be on the train regardless of when. What i am saying is if you see someone about to experience hardship and pain, would it not be more christian to help them, rather than say "they deserve it. Perhaps they don't.

IG

Help them what? They are given the same opportunity I am given, they refuse the gift and the gift giver. How exactly am I going to help them? By suffering with them? That's helping? Or maybe forcing them to believe and accept something they don't believe or accept? (If I even could.)

Do you think there will be any place for Christian living once the body is gone?

You aren't one of those people who pray for Satan are you? Seriously, I have talked with people who believe Satan can be "turned around." So they pray God will negate his wrath against the evil one, forgive him, and take him back into the fold.

That's nuts if you also believe God knows all, including the future. He knows who will and won't accept the gift. Doesn't wanting to stay behind spit at the gift and also tell God He doesn't know what He's doing? Not to mention its so arrogant I can hardly read it without laughing....

"Oh yeah God. Sorry I don't wanna come. I know you can't sway these people with the Holy Spirit, or your blood, or your Word, or even your miracles, and even though you know the future and know they will never accept the gift, I wanna stay here and SAVE THEM MYSELF."

Get out the cross....

Being Christian is following Christ, not some mamby pamby good feeling thing. Who do you think is going to cast the unrepentant into the lake of fire? I guess Jesus isn't a good Christian either.

At the end of the day, we are each responsible to God for our lives. Who woulda thunk Jesus was all about personal responsibility?

Amazing.

I don't know... I would have to get off and help. Just my psyche I guess... see someone in trouble, help them.

IG

that's a nice characteristic to have IG. You sound very compassionate. But there's only so much you can do. It's like trying to make a horse drink or a baby eat. If they are not in the mood,...ain't gonna happen.

That's why I said on my blog that nobody is going that doesn't want to go. The rapture is only for those IN Christ whether already dead or still alive.

But, if I understand the belief of the end times, there is still a chance after the rapture for those behind to be converted.

If that is the case, would it not make more sense to stay behind and help them on their way, or at least make their last days on earth bearble?

Also, why would you leave such an amazing show. Never before seen. Chaos loose on the world. the rampant fury of a vengeful deity.

IG

Actually, God has that all taken care of. He's sealing 144,000 Jewish Christians for just that reason. They will preach and teach for those that will become converted during this time. Also there will be two witnesses that God will send who also will be able to continue the work.



believe me, I don't think we want to see this horror show. Would you have liked to be in the middle of Nazi Territory in say 1942 as a Jew? That's what it's going to be like for Christians during the Tribulation.

Nazi Territory in say 1942 as a Jew?

No, but I would have loved to have seen the Trinity test in July of 1945.

IG

What's the Trinity Test?

The first test of the Atomic Bomb at Los Alamos, New Mexico was called the Trinity Test.

IG

Hi IG,

I know this is a rather old post but as this is a discussion.  It is one I started in 2007 and have since wondered how we came to have a 'belief of the end times' 

I know that a few years before I entered my first physical church, to celebrate being baptized/baptizo into the body of Christ.  Let me try in 'English'  :

I know that a few years ago before I entered the building commonly referred to as the church (with the steeple - actually there was no steeple) to celebrate my spiritual birth with others who I learned had been born of God too, I'd managed to assemble a 'belief of the end times' based on what I'd heard here and there. 

Of course, I got a version of a 'belief of the end times' from those who were doing the teaching and preaching in the church (with the steeple - actually there was no steeple) and from a few books that I've read over the years.

Between 1995 and this writing in 2007  'Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins, dealing with Christian dispensationalist End Times: pretribulation, premillennial, Christian eschatological viewpoint of the end of the world. The primary conflict of the series is the members of the Tribulation Force against the Global Community and its leader Nicolae Carpathia—the Antichrist. Left Behind is also the title of the first book in the series. The series was first published 1995-2007 by Tyndale House, a firm with a history of interest indispensationalism.' ( From: Wikipedia Online Encyclopedia)

One last stanza and then I'll make my point.

During 2007, I went on a my first journey out of Africa and recorded on of a set of 10 songs with Randy Stonehill (one of the fathers of Christian Rock) titled 'The Last Train' 

Now this song pretty much reflects the view that I'd assembled up to then but have since learned that this view might possibly be seriously flawed.  I refer: Matthew 24 – DD’s new episodes (regularly updated)

It seems to me that the view of Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Armageddon and the 1000 years peace etc. referred to in the book of Revelation and the passages in Matthew, Mark and various other books in the Christian sacred texts might be more consistent with an Orthodox interpretation referred to as Preterism.

'Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets prophecies of the Bible, especiallyDaniel and Revelation, as events which have already happened in the first century A.D. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which is listed in Webster's 1913 dictionary as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond," signifying that either all or a majority of Bible prophecy was fulfilled by AD 70. Adherents of preterism are commonly known as preterists.'  (From:  Wikipedia Online Encyclopedia)

 My own studies of the whole Bible have led me to conclude that there is not going to be a rapture (Edit Add: at least the way that some  pre-millennialists describe it) and that the coming of Jesus will coincide with and end time resurrection similar to that taught in the Old Testament.  I could surrender many verses in support of this but as I'm still in a bit of a puzzle, I'm just throwing this out there in case anyone has studied this in depth and can guide me out of the maze.

Peace,

Aeryck.